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I wish I never knew the names of chords

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by supersonic

I genuinely regret learning guitar in the bog standard - 'Here's a load of chords and here are their names' method. Music theory is bad. I know for certain I'd have a much, much greater ear if I'd just taught myself. When I play a B, I'm not thinking about the sound, I'm thinking 'This is a B', and that's the problem.

supersonic | 11 May '08, 16:42 | Send note | Report this | Reply

nah

ive got a shit ear for music but i can play chords now


I'm not a fan of this indie attitude

that musicianship is a bad thing.


I genuinely think it is though.

It's just a distraction from playing by ear.


I get what you mean

as in you can get bogged down in music theory as opposed to how a song sounds. What I've found is if you put the guitar into a different tuning play around a bit and find something you like, then you can use the theory to work out whats going on but not have been bogged down by it.


Its not an indie attitude

Its present in almost every form of art and there are lots of quite notable advocates of it. Im not saying "untutored" is better, but its certainly a way that can produce amazing results. Not to sound like a wankbag, but Ive never learned anything remotely theoretical and I think its definitely helped foster the sort of music I want to make.


My English teacher in the 10th grade taught me a very valuable lesson

You can only (properly) break the rules after once learning them.


If you want to be really good at guitar

then you actually have to learn how to be good at guitar. It CANNOT come naturally, unless you play another, similar instrument. How could it possibly produce amazing results? By that logic, why not teach yourself how to drive? It could produce AMAZING results! Yeah! Fuck THE MAN!


Nothing comes

naturally, but you do have to persevere. I think the equation of artistic merit with skill is exactly why the analogy of learning to drive a car doesnt work. And actually, barring the massive risk to your life it would actually be possible to teach yourself how to drive a car. It would, however, be pointless. Theres nothing wrong with musicianship, but its not the only way thats all.


I'm not really on about technical proficiency, though.

I'm talking about ear training, really. I think I'd have a better ear and be better at working out a song's chords if I never knew the name of the chords. Maybe because I wouldn't be able to just cheat and go on ultimate-guitar.com! I find that habit almost impossible to resist.


ear training isn't something you can teach yourself

it's something that happens after you've been playing a few years - you recognise notes/chords because you've played them so much. if you have learnt the names of the chords it will help you - i.e if you hear a b minor you know where and how to play it.


I don't think anyone ever became a worse guitarist

By bothering to learn a few chord names.

It's like saying I'd be a better writer if I hadn't studied english at school.


theoretical(ish) argument

basically in terms of being creative with a guitar its easier to get your own style when you haven't exposed yourself to all the theory. the established conventions of playing guitar are just one possible artistic 'language' as it were for communicating using a guitar. if ur using your own 'language' then your music will be more original than when you know extensively how one 'should' play guitar and you cannot truly be intuitive. but yer your talking about ear training or something ...


if you think that music theory tells you what you are supposed to play,

or what notes go with what, or what is correct, then you misunderstand music theory.


I'm not sure I agree about training your ear

but when I first started playing guitar, I made up chords all the time. Now it almost feels intuitive to use a regular chord progression. When I'm writing a song, I'll automatically move from C to Em or something. Even when I try to mess about with barre chords I don't know the names of, I end up doing exactly the same thing. So maybe it's nothing to do with knowing the names of chords at all, just a by-product of becoming familiar with your instrument (so to speak).


never mind theory...

http://www.halfjapanese.co.uk/how-to-play-guitar.php

follow the way of half japanese! quite inspiring if you were picking up geetar for the first time. i (unfortunately in ways) have rudimentary music theory which can hold you back sometimes. i think a sense of rhythm is far more important than mastering rules of chord formation/rigid structures.


Ah that's the sort of insight I was after!

I have the same problem really, got used to using the same chord progressions.


sorry guys

I am a firm believer in musical theory.
maybe its just the way my brain is wired though. I think you have to understand music properly, otherwise anything you compose is just a fluke.

I think we all can agree that music is a great force and I don't like the idea that people are just mucking around with it willy nilly and still calling themselves musicians.

Am I being too harsh?


The problem is in the way you're using the theory

Instead of relying on your instinct as to what chord should come next, you've got your mind stuck in the technical "this is a B, from here I can go to (x,y and z)" instead of just trying a few things out to see what catches your attention.

At the end of the day, write something you like the sound of. If you don't want to listen to your songs, why should anyone else? Theory or no theory.


the point is not to think of "B" *instead* of the sound

but to think about "B" as a label, as a shorthand, for the sound, so that it's easier to think about what you're doing when you're writing a song, or so that it's easier to explain it to other musicians you're working with.


Surely it's a balance of the two?

Personally I have always relied on playing/writing by instinct, but i would love to learn more music theory as I think it would expand my knowledge generally, which surely is a good thing.
I mean even if you work everything out yourself you will have learned elements of music theory just by working things out yourself. So you might as well get a head start and takle some theroy. Having said that I haven't really taken my own advice..


but I'm not sure that "learning about theory" is the way to think about it

you're really just learning a series of strategies - a sort of compositional toolbox - alongside a series of theoretical labels for those strategies. The labels don't really tell you what to do though - they don't even *explain* why the strategies work, in my opinion (though some musicologists would disagree).


That is the way i think of it

Its just learning about theory is easier to say...


"If you dont know the rules then there are no rules"

Went to lessons for about a year! Couldnt understand why he was making me play champane Supernova???

Continually told me to stop bashing down on the strings!

I left soon after!


sadly this is rubbish

if you want to communicate with someone else - by music as with anything - you have to speak the same language as they do. This means internalising some conventions, "rules" of grammar or the like. You can do this by learning things explicitly, or, if you prefer, by just going with what sounds good based on what you've heard other people doing, but don't kid yourself that just because you don't refer to them as "rules" that they aren't there.


Its a peice of wood that makes sounds

If played a certain way it can produce cool sounds or vibrant chords!!

Theory goes against the very nature of rock n roll, IMO! Unless you wanna sound like yan malmsteen or something!

The amount of time's my band has tryed out for a second guitarist and we continually get guys who feel the need to solo over everything "I MEAN EVERYTHING"!!!

These guys dont know the meaning of song structure or melody!

They spent to long on the theory end of things and will most probably end up playing in a pub covers band!!


umm

There's some irony in how on the one hand you criticise people for thinking about theory and on the other hand criticise them for not knowing about song structure and melody.

Theory on its own is just a series of labels for things that you can hear - I find it useful because it helps me to remember what I'm doing (e.g. what key I'm in), but abandoning the labels doesn't mean your music is any more or less original.


P.S.

I hate Yngwie Malmsteen and everything he stands for.


Isn't that slightly flawed logic?

While you may be building songs using your taught theory, surely your musical ear would pick a chord just because it sounds good as opposed to any 'logical' reasoning behind it?

And if you think about, say, a B flat, who can honestly say they hear that exact note in their head? The identifier
'B flat' is only there to help your mind work around the idea of structured sounds.

I agree that a less structured approach to learning guitar can pay dividends in terms of originality though. But really, it doesn't matter how you've learned, if you can write good tunes, you can write good tunes.

Joe - www.anewbandaday.com


...

To be frank, you are totally wrong. Music is just like any other language - the more words you know, the better your grammar; the better you will be able to articulate yourself.

And I'd put to you that it's the height of arrogance and delusion to come out and say "you know what, I think I've learnt enough". No-one has ever learnt enough.


I'm not sure at

which point he intimated that he was against learning? Surely there are different ways of approaching the same thing. Is he not talking about a signification problem, of his inability to attach signifying components to sound. I pretty sure thats not the same as saying I am against learning, its about method.


...

Simply put, he's talking about disregarding the most effective way of learning to play music and sticking to the path of least resistance. And he's wrong to do so.

If you don't agree, then perhaps you will when he serves up some super boring 2-chord 4/4 luddite anal-scrapings to show what all the work has gone into.


I wont deny

that in this case its probably the path of least resistance, but if hes actually committed then, while theres a lot more risk, theres also a lot more potential for aesthetic difference, thats all.


i never learnt any music

theory except for what i couldn't help but pick up (power chords, basic chords, variations) and learnt from the music i grew up with / what i wanted to hear in my head...when i play i am happy with the originality and feel i've got my own sound but when it comes to crafting a song, that theory comes creepin' in and seems a much harder process without that theory as a helping hand. I think it would be a smart idea to learn music theory really late on and tag it on to a self taught way of guitar so you got that originality and ease of construction, if that can even work?


* music theory as stability

to reign in ideas perhaps, whether neccesary or not, particularly how to work with other musicians and know what will be in key without having to keep trying.





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